Woking | Science Museum Group Collection

Video oral history interview with John Palmer conducted and recorded by Gordon Pettitt on 18 June 2018, at the interviewer’s home. Duration: 2 hours 13 minutes. [Track 01] Career in Civil Service start 1952 to Head of Railways Directorate in 1976; challenges; creation of Department of Transport (DoT), identifying what was the job, frustration with British Rail, question if rail was declining; [00:04:30] business tackled; pigeon carriage, British Railways Board (BRB) St. Pancras-Bedford development investment proposals, re-signalling issues; [00:07:00] developing DoT and BRB relationship; [00:09:00] Transport White Paper, supported by DoT, not by BRB; [00:12:30] Joint Study of Electrification; Steering Group, opposing views of BRB and DOT, issues, political approach, conflict between DoT and BRB; [00:20:50] Impact of change of Government; BRB concerns, review of railways committee chaired by Sir David Serpell; [00:26:30] review outcome, Serpell Report; [00:31:00] questioning network efficiency, lack of feedback from Serpell report, conflicts within committee; [00:37:00] positive outcome from Serpell report; press conference; network maps concerns; end of Peter Parker’s BRB chairmanship, appointment of Bob Reid 1 (BR1), Nicholas Ridley (NR) Minister, 3 years plan for railways; good rapport between BR1 and NR, East Coast electrification; relationships between NR and Margaret Thatcher; [00:43:00] managing railways decline, moving towards a business led efficient railway, freight contracting; uneconomical passenger services, obstacles to closures, Bill Roger’s White Paper, Norman Fowler (NF)’s view of closures, resources for closures; [00:50:40] DoT Civil Service attitude; oil crisis impact on money to be transferred from road schemes to railways; no anti-rail lobby in the DoT; introduction of public obligation service grant, BRB reaction, challenges [00:59:59] [end of track 01] [Track 02] DoT and BRB relationship; fare change example; Ministers wanted railways run like a business; [00:06:10] NF appointed Secretary of State; NF and Peter Parker relationship; [00:08:30] privatisation politics, not part of Conservatives’ 1979 manifesto, railway’s privatisation considered after British Telecom's privatisation, suggestions for mini-privatisations, Slough-Eaton Riverside example; [00:13:40] DoT and Treasury relationship, only DoT dealt with BRB; impact and action taken due to economy recession, DoT information leak to BRB to address recession; after British Telecom privatisation and other industries Treasury focused on the railways privatisation; [00:20:30] Minister of Transport’s powers; St. Pancras- Bedford electrification; [00:22:10] DoT freedom in dealing with BRB, exceptions; dealing with strikes, conflicts examples; [00:28:00] changes with Thatcher government; BRB’s link with government, conflicts BRB and Unions; change to Labour Government, legislation impact on BRB and Unions relation; [00:31:30] changes following appointment of BR1, relationship with DoT [00:36:40] financial settlement; Quality Objectives introduced; Commuter Charter; [00:39:00] impact of changes Secretary of State (SoS), comments on different SoS; [00:45:30] Safety on the Railways; JP responsible for effectiveness of Railway Inspectorate, proposal for transfer of Railway Inspectorate transferred to Health and Safety Executive but maintained under DoT; [00:53:30] personal achievements at DoT; East Coast Electrification, railways changed to business led organisation; [00:56:30] latency from Conservative before privatisation took off; [01:01:20] JP joining BR, work on Channel Tunnel; [01:05:20] comparison between civil service and BR work; JP views of privatisation process; being removed from Channel Tunnel role, remaining as an adviser on privatisation; lawsuits; JP views of BRB on privatisation; JP focus ensuring that railway managers knew how to set up a bid as part of privatisation [01:13:34] [end of track 02] [end of interview]

John Palmer interviewed by Gordon Pettitt

2013-06-18

Interview with Mervyn Llewellyn Lloyd, recorded by Christopher Nairne on 3 July 2025 at Woking Area Signalling Centre (ASC). Duration: 2 hours 43 minutes 8 seconds. [Strat of interview, track 01] Childhood in Southeast London, memories of local Second World War bombsites; life with family, family background, his parents jobs, family members involvement in First World War and Second World War, family link to Church of England; education, schools attended, subjects studied, Combined Cadet Force Royal Air Force [RAF] section, training flights; family holidays, choir singing and decision not to go to university. [00:27:19] Joined British Rail aged 17, clerical role at New Cross ticket office, Metropolitan Line. Joining training scheme, move to London Bridge; discussing London Bridge station redevelopment 2013-2018; parcels traffic in 1960s, shift work, comparing work on parcels at New Cross versus work at London Bridge, booking and reservation enquiries; developing railway knowledge, training on timetable layout, railway geography and customer service; early 1960s steam traction, electrification, electric-multiple-units (EMU) and changing railway technology, diversity in workforce then. [00:44:47] Transfer to Station Master’s Office at Holborn Viaduct, detail of administrative/clerical work there, other type of staff and way there were managed, wages and BR pension scheme; later clerical rotation across Southeast Division, TSSA union membership; clerical officer appointment, then Divisional Officer, dealing with incidents and investigations, including Hither Green (November 1967) and Marden (January 1969) crash investigations. [01:13:50] Joining British Rail Traffic apprenticeship scheme; 1971, promoted to Assistant Station Manager at Guildford, shift, commuting, staff management and cash wage delivery responsibilities; description of Guildford signal boxes, Local Departmental Committee [LDC] negotiation structures and staff relations. [01:40:32] 1974-77, managed Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield, Knebworth, Welwyn North and Stevenage, suburban electrification work and regional system differences; 1977, Station Manager at Guildford. [01:52:58] 1983, Area Passenger Manager in Portsmouth, moving with his partner to Fareham; 1988-89 Woking Area Passenger Manager, commuting. [end of track 01] [Track 02] Privatisation, moved to Railtrack as Train Planning Development Officer, work on future timetable planning and re-signalling schemes; c 2002, retirement and part-time freelance consultancy for the Strategic Rail Authority, advising on West Coast Main Line, Channel Tunnel Rail Link and Heathrow rail link timetable planning. [00:16:05] Reflecting on his career, how much he enjoyed consultancy work, biggest challenges were staff disciplinary issues and industrial action. [00:21:05] How the railway felt like a safe community for him as a gay man, maintained friendships with former colleagues. How he has never allowed sexuality to affect staffing decisions or professional relationships, being aware of other colleagues being gay, not making a secret of his sexuality at work. [00:25:46] Friendships outside of work, how he met his partner through a local group of gay men. Having never explicitly discussed his sexuality or came out to his family. 1980s HIV/AIDS crisis, having lost friends to HIV/AIDS. Relationship with his partner, civil partnership ceremony in Southampton. [00:31:47] His personal views on railway privatisation, dismay at privatisation and cautious optimism about green policies and future rail use, Channel Tunnel shareholding and hopes for greater Channel Tunnel use; advice he would give his younger self of that what interests you. [end of interview]

Mervyn Llewellyn Llyod interviewed by Christopher Nairne

2025-07-03

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McLaren MP4-7 carbon-fibre monocoque Grand Prix racing car chassis

Kenwood Electric Chef' food mixer, model A700, with accessories, Woking, Surrey, 1950-1956

Kenwood A101 electric toaster

'Dishmaster' electric dishwasher made by Kenwood Manufacturing Co. Ltd

Exhaust pipes from Formula One Grand Prix racing car, 1996

Huxley, Julian. At the Zoo (Woking: Unwin, 1936)

Two photograph albums compiled by Henry J O'Neill

Image of a group of Muslim leaders warming themselves around a heater

gleneagles hotel

John Palmer interviewed by Gordon Pettitt

Gordon Pettitt interviewed by Frank Paterson (session 1 of 2)

Nose cone and front wing of Formula One car

Gordon Pettitt interviewed by Frank Paterson (session 2 of 2)

Steam Iron

Dynascope by Vision Engineering Ltd.

Dynascope' Optical Beam Scan Projector

Kenwood model A200 electric food mixer

papers concerning the southern railway servants orphanage

Kenwood 'Minor' portable food mixer

Master MiniDV 'Woking Old Signal box'

Cycle handlebar grips

Air ventilated Aircrew Coverall (tropical flying suit) by RFD-GQ Ltd

Motor cycle knee grips

Master MiniDV 'Electrical control room Woking, 2'

Master MiniDV 'Railway heritage committee visit to Woking'

Gear selector shaft from Formula 1 car

Anthony Smale interviewed by Christopher Nairne

Daily Herald Contact Sheet: Eid at Shah Jehan Mosque, Woking

Master MiniDV 'Electrical control room Woking, 1'

Master MiniDV 'Woking new and redundant signal boxes'

Master MiniDV 'Electrical control room Woking, 3'

Mervyn Llewellyn Llyod interviewed by Christopher Nairne