Darran Brown interviewed by Matt Smith

Interview with Darran Brown conducted by Matt Smith on 13 August 2024 at the Science and Industry Museum, Manchester. Duration: 48 minutes 26 seconds. [Start of interview] Childhood, education; his railway career, how he joined the railway in 1996 as a summer Station Announcer at Preston before moving onto platforms, despatching trains and progressing to Station Supervisor at Wigan North Western, Senior Conductor and Train Driver with Virgin Trains in 2002. He describes a lifelong interest in railways, family railway connections dating back to 1834, childhood cab rides and a family collection of rulebooks. [00:07:00] Being out in his personal life but closeted at work, living a double life and facing homophobia, homophobic abuses at work, example abusive material placed in his pigeonhole in 2003. He explains how ASLEF union [Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen] LGBTQIA+ support helped him respond, including advice when approaching management, and recalls a request from the ASLEF General Secretary not to discuss homosexuality. He says workplace attitudes made him feel being openly gay would have harmed his career, but that union backing later helped him be out and open as a driver. He recalls laughing along with homophobic messroom comments to protect himself, avoiding gay colleagues to prevent gossip, and feeling Section 28 had set equality back by years. [00:16:00] His rapid career progression, running a station within 12 months and becoming a Senior Conductor within three years. Reflecting on macho platform culture, learning football to fit into messroom conversations, and becoming more comfortable among women and openly gay catering staff. Being seen with his partner meant colleagues became aware of his sexuality, which he experienced positively because he no longer had to hide. [00:23:20] Comparing Virgin’s public brand with railway culture on the ground, describing poor understanding of LGBTQIA+ issues, abuse in his pigeonhole while driving, and strong support from his union and Virgin HR (Human Resources), with management taking a positive stand. He discusses Preston and Blackpool depot cultures and joining the ASLEF LGBTQIA+ Committee, set up in 2000 to support members across areas, including giving confidential advice on colleagues’ personal LGBTQIA+ concerns. [00:30:50] Committee work advising colleagues, challenging transphobia and confronting discriminatory comments. He reflects on a transgender person leaving the railway after abusive colleague behaviour, and ongoing resistance to LGBTQIA+ visibility. Negative reactions to Pride flags and colleague surprise around non-binary colleagues working on track. He stresses the importance of being an LGBTQIA+ ambassador. [00:36:00] DB describes the railway as a closed environment with limited diversity, messroom cliques and senior leadership still dominated by “male, pale and stale” demographics, but sees slow cultural change through education, challenge, trainbows and queer community organising. He argues that railway staff and passengers both need better LGBTQIA+ awareness because everyone uses the railways, and notes the importance of legal protections alongside visibility. [00:43:20] DB discusses recognition of same gender partnerships on the railway, including late 1990s efforts to secure equal partner benefits and wider progress in the 2000s through queer community work. He ends by emphasising the value of People, Pride & Progress and LGBTQIA+ networks in increasing visibility, preserving experience and pushing equality forward. [end of interview]

This interview was made as part of People Pride and Progress (PPP) project. The project was initiated in 2023 to record the stories and memories of the LGBTQIA+ community in a new oral history archive over two years. It aimed to connect past, present and future through intergenerational interviews, offering opportunities for colleagues across all parts of the rail industry to connect, reflect on and learn from each other’s lived experiences while creating an archive of oral history interviews.