Jim Gillies interviewed by Ashlynn Hudson-Welburn

Interview with Jim Gillies recorded by Ashlynn Hudson-Welburn on 4 March 2024 at the National Railway Museum. Duration: 2 hours 41 minutes 47 seconds. [Start of interview, track 01] Jim Gillies discusses childhood on the west coast of Scotland, study at Paisley College of Technology, unemployment after college, and joining British Rail (BR) as a guard at Fort William in 1984. He reflects on the hostile political climate of the 1980s, including Margaret Thatcher, Section 28, HIV/AIDS crisis and the miners’ strike, and his desire to leave small towns while coming to understand he was gay. [00:07:00] Describes early West Highland Line work, moving to Motherwell in 1989, shift work, overtime, and beginning to explore gay bars in Glasgow while not openly discussing sexuality at work. He recalls Head Office colleagues gradually realising he was gay, being informally outed by a manager, and feeling BR’s structures and unions made it safer than smaller workplaces. [00:14:50] Recalls school and college experiences with little LGBTQIA+ visibility, no supportive sex education, and limited early reference points such as Oscar Wilde and the Jeremy Thorpe/Norman Scott case. At Paisley, HIV/AIDS public information and grassroots community education shaped his awareness and caution around relationships. [00:42:00] Covers guard training, freight and passenger work including the Jacobite Steam train, signalling and radio signalling, and Fort William duties including ticket sales, parcels, timber trains, signal box cover, being on call, and supervisory visits. [00:58:56] Discusses promotion to Traffic Supervisor, coming out to a woman at work, limited queer openness in Fort William, moving to Motherwell for wider social opportunities, safety incidents, booking office checks, and the impact of shift work. [01:16:10] Describes moving to Glasgow Head Office in 1991, signalling responsibilities, signaller rules exams, Royal Train liaison, and developing an interest in signal engineering. He also reflects on his experience of Glasgow’s gay scene and activism in relation to Section 28 and HIV, and recognising local LGBTQIA+ communities. [01:33:40] His railway career from 1991 to retirement in 2021, BR, Railtrack and Network Rail, including privatisation, trade unions, and how some railway union policies were reported in the Pink Paper tabloid [end of track 01] [Track 02] Discusses meeting other gay railway workers, not concealing sexuality but not making it central, long-term relationships, privacy and workplace gossip. [00:13:30] Reflects on Railtrack culture, performance reviews, rail accidents, fragmented maintenance, signal strikes, Network Rail settling in Scotland, government investment, and project work including GSM-R (Global System for Mobile Communications – Railway), Edinburgh-Glasgow Electrification and maintenance projects. [00:27:00] Explains the Project Sponsor role, authorising staged funding, ensuring value, managing relationships with Train Operating Companies (TOCs), and negotiating access for works. Also discusses Archway, Network Rail’s LGBTQIA+ network, Pride participation, improved legal protections and visible openly gay senior leadership. [00:39:30] Reflects on barriers to promotion for gay staff, railways as “fairly tolerant”, the protection of organisational structures from individual queerphobic managers, transgender colleagues transitioning without job loss to his knowledge, HIV/AIDS information being mainly community-based, and the impact of hostile 1980s politics. [00:53:30] Discusses a key career achievement: contributing to the early 2000s rewrite of the railway rulebook in plain English with RSSB (Rail Safety and Standards Board). Retirement reflections include BR pensions, BRASS (British Rail Additional Superannuation Scheme), declining pension provision after privatisation, and being more willing to speak openly about LGBTQIA+ matters. [end of interview]

This interview was made as part of People Pride and Progress (PPP) project. The project was initiated in 2023 to record the stories and memories of the LGBTQIA+ community in a new oral history archive over two years. It aimed to connect past, present and future through intergenerational interviews, offering opportunities for colleagues across all parts of the rail industry to connect, reflect on and learn from each other’s lived experiences while creating an archive of oral history interviews.